For your convenience, we have included a 90% accurate machine transcript.
Dusty Rhodes 0:00
Right now on how to build a podcast for your brand, we're about to learn about broadcast quality, with great tips and insights from the former boss of Newstalk, a multi award winning radio presenter and a full on studio engineer. Let's go.

Intro Sequence
This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss show going to talk about house prices. house prices in Ireland and particularly Johnny podcast bringing you all the mayhem and news in the world and a to Johnny's open the pod bay doors. This is business wars, the E y podcast CEO outlook series, Tommy's here tiernan. We just go for brace yourself.

Dusty Rhodes 0:40
Go ahead and shout a cracker of a show for you today because the question came up. What is a broadcast quality podcast? See, initially it was all about audio quality and getting your levels right make sure the message is getting across. But as we talked more and more people, we realized it's about way more than audio quality, which is why we want to do a podcast so that we can learn more, and get some help with these things and talk about getting help with these things from the best of the best in the business. later on. I'm going to be connecting up with New York City where we're going to talk to Dara Quilty, Dara is one of the top presenters on commercial radio in Dublin. And after winning the radio presenter of the year, three years in a row, he quit. He needed a new challenge off to New York, he went over there he met an Irish record producer who is doing extremely well on everything from hermitage grain is getting to American a hard rock bands like slipknot and stuff like that. He knows everything there is to know about the technical End of Audio and we'll be having a quick chat with him. Hopefully, we won't get too geeky on you. But let me start off with Garrett Hart, who was for many years the editor in chief ad news talk. He has coached and mentored many radio producers and presenters and very successfully to as the station one station of the Year award six times while he was there, Garrett is now sharing his skills with Hart media.ie where in addition to media training, Garrett is very skilled at public affairs, reputation management and strategic communications. He joins me now. Garrett, how are you? Oh, good, dusty, I suppose. My first question to you is, well, I'm thinking of podcasts and radio and the kind of the same thing in my head. What is revealed to you?

Garrett Harte 2:34
radio, to me is quite simple. It's about content, content content. It's very much something that can be overthought at times. But is nothing more than a well structured well thought through intimate conversation between two people.

Dusty Rhodes 2:58
That's the head. That's the best summation. I think, now I know where you want six radio awards for stage of the year. What about the preparation for a program? Because you've trained many producers over the years? So the producer is the person who is putting the program together? What what are the main pieces of advice that you give them?

Garrett Harte 3:17
I suppose preparation is key to most things in life dusty, but it's certainly key to any great radio show, understanding how to design a running order that keeps a listener of trust. There's a great quote by Benjamin Franklin, he said, by failing to prepare, you're preparing to fail. I think Roy King's use of the few times on this day is his Managerial career. I really am amazed at how many times that you know to a radio station, or whether it be music land or talk lead radio station that actually here the presenter, talking without any clear prep, making general statements, no context, basically waffling to full time. And really, you know, before you open that make fitter. As a presenter, you should be very clear with what you want to say. Very clear, how you're going to say it. Have a start, middle and end and ensure that that intimate conversation is interesting, but also entertaining because at the end of the day, whether you're a news broadcaster through different broadcasts or or music broadcasts, or you're working in the entertainment business, so you need to entertain your audience.

Dusty Rhodes 4:41
So when you're doing that preparation, how detailed Do you think you should get?

Garrett Harte 4:46
Well, certainly from my tie, the running order is your tactics as you knew go through your hour or two hour show. So preparing your your running Order is crucial. In terms of detail, the, the the presenters have able to work with over the years, by and large, came from different walks of life. So their skill set was very much in the space of being great storytellers. And they were able to bring that storytelling, ability to most interview towards conversations. So having the structure running order for me was to ensure you have momentum across the program. So starting strong, was really important to me, almost like going to a gig, or go to stand up comedian, show. If the stand up comedian doesn't speak in the first 15 minutes, you've lost them, you've lost the audience. So for me starting strong, were very important. In a note of outbreaks, never, never wasting an opportunity to listen to us through outbreaks. And again, you know, I am always amazed at the amount of times that our presenter will say, and stay tuned, we'll be back after this.

Dusty Rhodes 6:09
For what annoys me about that. It's like, Oh, where are you going? It sounds like going to the toilet.

Garrett Harte 6:17
But also, so those things in terms of ETL and a running order were important. But by and large, I would have been very much of the view that it was a very, it was a living program, a live program, anything could happen. I'm not sponsored every had to be on the program. And as text messages and social media has become more interactive, the listener plays a huge part in any real production.

Dusty Rhodes 6:53
So do you think if you've gone to all the trouble of creating this running order, and you know exactly what you're going to do, and when and you have a beginning, a middle and an end? And then things kind of take a slight turn maybe something different as as happened to according to what one of your guests have said? Or maybe there's a reaction from people who are in the studio or the listeners? Should you run with that? Or should you just stick rigidly with the running order?

Garrett Harte 7:20
No. Run, I always have a view that the time slots are there as a guide. But if you had an opportunity where an interview was allowing the person to start to open up, or if there was a very emotional interview, or a political interview, where they the politician or spokesperson was starting to get on ice, and the job of the producer is to be the third air of the presenter to say keep going with us now to ensure again that the delivery of the final product ensures that you're not tied into to 10 minutes Yep, limit six minutes and many's the time we we wouldn't have been going down well for sales guys. But you know, dropping the handbrake to keep interview would have been opportunities where you just have to do so.

Dusty Rhodes 8:23
Tell me about the presentation side of things because a lot of people who were not radio presenters, so I'm thinking of Bobby car or George Hawk, Ivan Nieto well organized could work well talk anywhere. But these weren't like trained radio presenters yet they found themselves behind a microphone. That what what kind of advice were you giving them to enable them to present on radio?

Garrett Harte 8:50
First, the reason we would have identified people like Bobby, George Ivan, go on to talk about people like having McCain and us talk sports guys and our football storytellers. So they could keep you entertained, keep you interested in a conversation that we're quirky, and they also fleet. For the older guys with George and Ivan Ababa. They are the Netherlands they have different stories to tell beyond radio, they're very comfortable in their own skin. The advice that I would have given them really would have been to take risks like Newstalk for me with all about pushing the boundary, creating a conversation beyond the headline. So they had to take risks, calculated risks, risks to put themselves out there to be ridiculed, or or to get tripped up. But when you put yourself at risk, you're sometimes going to make mistakes and you therefore have to be very, very confident that If you do make a mistake that you're comfortable with nothing, you're comfortable to make a mistake. Because that endears you to the listener, you know that radio phrase, don't care or the radio PL use people like us. Those presenters that you mentioned, are very much people like Oh, so people could relate to?

Dusty Rhodes 10:21
Well, I always it's funny when I got into podcasting, first, I loved it as a medium, because as you say, there was a running order. And you could take risks, because if they worked, he left them in the program. And if they didn't, you just took them out, which is wonderful. But what we were doing was we were taking like almost everything that wasn't good out. So if there were ohms, or AWS or whatever, we take them out or whatever, there were small mistakes or whatever we take them out. And at the end of it, we have absolutely perfect radio program is like the radio program that came down from heaven, and arrived on Earth. And it was like as perfect. And you know what? It was terrible? Because it just didn't sound natural as Yeah, yeah, you have now moved on to heart media. Now the website is hard. media.ie. And that's h AR t e media.ie. And I'll have that in the show notes for you. So if you listen to the podcast right now, it will be in the application. But I was gonna ask you part of hard media is media training? Yeah. So if you have people in in the kind of getting behind the microphone for the first time, how do you calm them down?

Garrett Harte 11:31
I think, you know, there's three things I would say to people who, who I train. Number one, be clear, but what you're going to say, lots of people go into radio interviews, or, as I said earlier, who present radio shows was clearly little knowledge or understanding of what they want to say, they might have lots of things in their head that are going to say, that's different to what you want to say. No, that your audience is one person. It's not 100,000 people, it's not 10,000 people, it's you're having an intimate conversation. And that would have been the advice I would have always given George, or Ivan, or Bobby, there's an you're talking to another person in the room. So you've got to address them as you would if there were certain behavior. And the third point is, what impact what's the impact play? So what are they what what's the piece or the fact or the emotion that you want them to take away from what you said otherwise? If it's not added value for them, we're not going to be you know, left feeling happy, if they're not going to be more informed on an issue or you know, that you're going to crack a smile on their face, then we'll go over some of that impact is And the final thing people get stage fright about the front of the mic. And really, once you strip away the surroundings, the red light the the studio surroundings, you are having a one on one intimate conversation with someone else very much just as we are now.

Dusty Rhodes 13:28
let me ask you one last question. And that is, I mean, the title of this podcast is all about broadcast quality is that what is broadcast quality in your head?

Garrett Harte 13:41
broadcast quality in my head is ensuring that the listener is receiving the information in a form that from an audio point of view, does not have any distraction distortion. And that the information is delivered in a medium and a form that is easy for me to digest. So again, there's there's lots of presenters that we could name who feel that their job is to let us know how intelligent they are or how intelligent more intelligent they are than the interview he was. In fact, the role is very much as a facilitator. So you know, quality and radio is very much the sound, but also the manner in which the presenter can be the ringmaster to bring the information in a digestible form. Excellent. I'll

Dusty Rhodes 14:50
tell you that you've given so much good advice in the last 10 minutes so I'm almost tempted to take out my checkbook. No I don't. Oh dear, what a pity. Garrett, you're an absolute legend. Thank you so much for talking to us. Garrett Hart is the main man at heart media. It's h AR t media.ie. If you're interested in reputation management, public affairs media training as you can hear Garrett really knows his stuff. So check him out there at heart immediate dot A Garrett. Thank you. Thank you dusty good talking to you.

Joining me now is Dara Quilty one of my favourite people in radio. I've known him since way back in the early days or nights as you say back in spin one or three eight when we first met, and I could instantly see the Derek just get. He is frustratingly and very annoyingly naturally talented, and also very ambitious. He's gone on to win a dozen radio awards and after winning music program of the Year for third year running, what did he do? He quit 98 fm and is now based in New York City working with American media and promoting his band palla. You can find out more about him on Dara Quilty calm later but right now Hello, Dara, how are you?

Dara Quilty 16:11
Thanks so much for the introduction. I'm getting used to accepting compliments. Since I've moved to New York City, I really struggle with the compliments. You know, I recently watched a Taylor Swift documentary on Netflix. I noticed every time somebody said oh my god, you're amazing. She says thank you for saying that. And I really am envious not for millions of dollars but her ability to accept a compliment. While I'm

Dusty Rhodes 16:39
joining you is Aiden Cunningham, who is a recording engineer and a music producer working with artists across the globe for the past 14 years. He's done everything I just want to play two quick samples here from hermitage green juice wanna burn in year after year after to something quite the extreme opposite from Baylor.

You could hear a lot more of that on his website, Adan dash cunningham.com Aiden, thank you for joining us as well. Not a problem dusty, delighted to be here. So we've got Derek is the presenting end of what makes you know kind of broadcast quality and Aiden is the the God of audio as I believe he has tattooed on his chest. You wouldn't believe how much attention that gets me. Darren, can I ask you this? And you said you're able to take compliments? How's this for an opening question for you? What is it that makes you a consistent award winner?

Dara Quilty 17:52
Ah, dusty are hanging me out to dry here, baby. Come on. What makes me good, I have no idea. It does come from an interest in music and technology. I always played music. You know, rock music. That's how Aiden and I know each other, I was always in bands. I was always interested in the creation of music, which is the creation of audio, which is filling blank space with sounds. And then I vividly remember being trained in on a console in 98 FM when I was 18 years old. And for some reason dusty, it's like me on the ice skating rink. I just got us. It just made sense. And I think nurturing that technical ability, as my career went went on, did help me Excel as opposed to some people who steer away from actually learning about the technical aspect of broadcasting or audio because that's what radio is, man.

Dusty Rhodes 18:52
Do you know what I'd say? It is that makes you consistent award winner? And you've answered the question in spades. One word, passion. Oh, yeah. Sorry. It could have just said that. You were passionate about music and you're passionate about entertaining people. Okay, radio just happen to be something that you fell into to do this. But because you're passionate about it, you always want to put on a good show. Am I correct? Yeah. And that's what that's what drives you. And I think anybody who's doing podcasting, because there's a lot of people who kind of like you fall into radio or radios, a bit of a side thing. There's a lot of people now who have to present podcasts and they kind of go, oh my god, or they're being interviewed on podcasts. And what I always say to them is Hang on a minute, dude. You are talking about something that you are passionate about. You are talking about something that you are an expert about. Do your main, you know the answers to all of the questions and even if they're wrong.

Dara Quilty 19:55
I know that you're wrong. I think passion is very infectious. Very coincidentally I got a message from Graham O'Toole. today. GRAEME is on spin 1038, Graeme and Nathan. On the pressure shall spam. Yeah. And he, I love those guys. I mean, they're a couple of years younger than me, but you know, I see them as my children. And we always talk about radio content and they listen to me and they all say I like this bit of the broadcast. That was good. That wasn't good. And I do the same for them. And I love that sort of camaraderie that exists. And Graham said to me, he listened to a podcast I did this week with the lead singer of wheatus. Famous for the song Teenage Dirtbag and thread this podcast, we broke down Teenage Dirtbag for what it was technically. And Graham said, I loved that. I loved how technical you guys got on the song because you were so passionate about it, even though I don't know what the key of E is. Even though I don't know about walking baselines. You made an interesting, and I agree with what you're saying. And I think it's very coincidental gray made the exact same point today.

Dusty Rhodes 21:04
There was truthfulness, there must be some truth in it. And you said that you music is the thing that drives you. And now, when you're in New York, you are hanging out with Aiden, Aiden, you've been a recording engineer for let's say a long time. years. Yep, yep, you've certainly done a lot. And I was gonna ask you, Aiden just about music and and how it's recorded and how it's mixed and mastered. For those of us who don't own now, I don't do music. And I could probably take a stab at the answer. But I want to ask you because you're an expert. What is the difference between mixing and mastering?

Aidan Cunningham 21:35
How many years do you have? Great question. The way I always like to talk about food, I use food analogies the whole time because I'm a big foodie. So mixing is like making the cake getting all the ingredients, getting the right ingredients together, blending them together, putting the right care and attention into it, and you make the cake and then mastering is like the final presentation of it. So maybe you put it on a nice little stand or put the right lighting on it or the the bow around or the decoration You know, that's kind of how I break it in my head what it actually means technically, mixing the song is taking the core multitrack elements of a song. So let's let's say it's your typical rock band, you know, drum kit, bass, guitars, keyboards, vocals, taken all those various sound sources, which were either recorded live together or overdosed at different stages. And you're mixing them together. So the volume, the frequency content of them, you're adding effects to them, you're changing the dynamics of them, you're changing the panning of them in the stereo field. So you're just basically taking all the ingredients of the song and mixing them to there's no such thing as a good sounding mix. It's whatever's at least in my opinion, it's a what's a statically right for the project. And then mastering is taking that mix and making sure it translate across all the different formats. So probably 90% of that as the people listening on iTunes and Spotify now are listening on their phones. So what the mastering engineer will do is getting the mix ready for mastering. So that's very subtle EQ changes. So maybe, maybe the mix needs to be just brightened up a little bit or there's a little bit too much low end in it. Or it's a bit loud for vinyl, so we need to turn it down a bit or compress it slightly differently. So mastering is the last you know if the last 5%. But it can actually make a huge difference to the to the overall aesthetic of the project.

Dusty Rhodes 23:17
You mentioned in there about the loudness now there's a certain level or way of measuring like I'm talking about lufs here, maybe you could explain them for me listening units.

Aidan Cunningham 23:29
But before the streaming age, what what was happening was a digital mastering is actually called a full scale Volume Volume unit. So what was happening was people are trying to get the songs louder and louder by limiting them by brick wall limiting them. That would the thought being either and this is the CD age or the radio agent before mp3 is and before streaming. If my song comes on louder than the next song, people will listen to it, it's going to sound better. So that led to mastering engineers pushing up the mixes hotter and hotter by by limiting them using a compressor called the limiter. So what happens now in streaming and be at iTunes or Spotify or even on YouTube, they all have a loudness standard where and and that's measured in lufs. So that that's perceived to be not and based off of like a digital number that a target you're trying to you're trying to reach but an overall average volume level of the track. It's not doing based off peak mastering and maybe getting too nerdy here. But it's it's it's done over the overall volume of the song not based off one particular incident in the song.

Dusty Rhodes 24:38
So if you were to look at the level of the song at some stage, it's going to hit its loudest peak and that will be the loudest point of the song whereas with the lufs what you're looking at is you're looking for the average volume across the entire song. Correct. And it is important to make sure that your levels are correct because it is very disturbing to a listener if they're listening to two or three podcasts in a row. And then yours comes on and it's booming. Or, as I've often heard, it's the opposite where it can't be heard at all. Because it's too low. So you just need a consistency of sound. So there's good that there is a standard there as well. And then I also think, you know, when I'm mixing for a podcast, a lot of people listen to podcasts when they're driving in the car, or when they're taking a bus, or when they are going for a walk or something like that. And they're all quiet or can be noisy environments.

Dara Quilty 25:31
Oh, well, yeah, you're going to lose RG, you're going to lose sound I before we recorded this podcast today, I ran my ear over. I looked at the top 10 podcasts in Ireland to see what the audio quality was like over the content. And the top there's a good there's probably four, maybe three Irish ones. And you'll be you'll be happy to hear as 70% of the top 10 podcasts in Ireland had a decent quality audio, but three of them did not. And three of them were produced in Ireland. And you're kind of you're kind of talking about this. This kind of like Hello, hello. Hey, welcome to the podcast. How are you getting on? It's kind of like, I know he's talking about Yeah, it was it was it was? No, this isn't the target at the is any specific person, it's the manner in which they are recording their podcast, which is in a room that's not treated, that's fine. But it wasn't like you're talking about lufs. And you know, when Aiden talks, you know, it's a, he's very particular about the science of it. But it's like a perception of loudness. So if you're on a podcast, and you're excited about the thing, and you're like, and then I went in and there was tits everywhere, I couldn't believe it. No, but you're going to get excited. And if you're not excited, you'd be like, Indiana, I didn't see any tickets, your level changes. And the problem is, all you need to do is put on a compressor to make the loud part quiet, the quiet part loud. So there's a consistency in what the person is hearing you want it to be relatively, this is I can hear this person speaking. But I can also pick up the intonation or tones in their voice. It's such a simple play. But these people are not they don't know what loves what loves are sorry, which I guess they're not opposed. If they're not audio people, but I, you know, if you're in music, you're going to pay aid to talk about physics and science. I don't even know I kind of nod off sometimes when he's talking about stuff. What am I know when he shows me a song he made and go What do you think of this? And then he shows me what it was before he touched it. And I'm like Jesus Christ, man.

Dusty Rhodes 27:47
I think the two pieces of music that I play I'm actually not gonna play them now here after listening to that. All right. And just to hear because hermitage green is kind of very mellow. Alright. And then we go into Baylor, which is kind of the complete opposite and as just seems like everything is turned up. Its proper like that that movie, everything is turned up to a left. But quick listen to it. And just after hearing how you explained about levels of the stuff I allow, let's compare the two tunes again, who's hermitage green wanna burn in Iraq? In Iraq? This is the louder beta.

Now, I do radio, I am getting the levels right is very important to me. But I am just in awe of you aid and how you can make hermitage greensand levels better. That's the secret to selling a book someday I make millions. And I was going to ask you, Dara, just back around to the other. That's kind of the sound levels that we're talking about with podcasting. What about actually preparing for a show? Now? Uh, you're probably the worst person to ask for this. Because, as I say, you just kind of you get things that you're able to do things on the fly that would take me weeks to think of, but did we do prepare things? Do you think about links? Do you think about where it is? You're going to end? What

Dara Quilty 29:22
kind of tips Could you give us? Do? Like the answer is yes. Everybody prepares for everything. I think, I think thinking I think thinking is preparation. At I think methods of preparation are different, depending on the task at hand. And then in my head. I kind of know how I want the thing to end or I know where I want it to go and I will do my best to assist it in going to that place.

Dusty Rhodes 29:49
I think though the what you say is that when we go for a link, we know what it is that we want to say and what we're talking about and we know where it's going to end. Correct, I think you'd be just remember that if you're presenting a podcast or a video or whatever, if you're answering an interview question, you just know what you want to say, and you know how it's gonna land, and you can't go wrong. And you know how you want it to sound that's I think the world is changing a lot, actually. Because Yeah, I don't know, Aiden, if the if this has changed with music, but things are changing with COVID. And people don't want to have to be in certain locations or meet with other people in case they might sneeze or whatever it happens to be, and things that were possible five or 10 years ago, but only a few people would do now everybody's doing it.

Aidan Cunningham 30:42
Yeah, people are, they're resorting to completely understand and be there restored, or they're resorting to a lot more self recording themselves. And I see that as both a brilliant thing, because that's open up the world's more music. That's great. But it's also, I obviously have a vested interest because I'm quite into audio. But you even see at the recent there was a world concert, all the top artists and Lady Gaga was singing into a microphone backwards. Yes.

Dusty Rhodes 31:10
Did you see this toaster? Yeah, I did not notice it straightaway. And I just smiled. Can you explain that Aiden in layman's terms?

Aidan Cunningham 31:17
So okay, there's the microphone she was using, but he was anointment microphone. I can't remember now. He wasn't using there. Yeah. And so there's a certain pickup pattern on that microphone. So basically, she was singing into the back of back of it at the point where there's most rejection, and thus compromising the carrier frequency content of it. She was singing to the wrong end of the microphone, essentially.

Aidan Cunningham 31:39
This is basically a lovely song You know, it's it's a you can hear the differences. I moved the mic around there, because she's the biggest pop star like that whole concert. It just it reaffirmed my belief in the world needs good audio because as soon as it's taken away, it's like, if you're at a gig like a live gig, nobody and if this if the sound is brilliant, and the band's on fire, and no one's looking around, going, Oh, good job, audio guy, you're doing a great job. But if it's terrible, the sound man is getting some blocks from the crowd. God is your man doing better. That's terrible. Like it's the same, I think was broadcasts and podcasts. And it's the same music if you know, let's say in a podcast, if the audio is weird, or if some guy in a shed and it sounds terrible and reverberating around the person, the average listener might go, Oh, that sounds a bit strange. There's too much reverb there. But they're just going to be even subconsciously put off by it. They don't it's like now I'm literally enjoy that podcast, it was just, you know, it affected a negative third out of subconscious, like consumption in terms of like, audio, film, television, nobody ever like how many people do not know that in on a Netflix show when you're watching it that most of the dialogue is is replaced. And what I mean by that is when you're looking on camera, and there's a scene, or it's once upon a time in Hollywood, it's Leo and Brad Pitt there. And they're beside a helicopter. And Brad Pitt's like we got to get on the chopper. If you were if you took the audio like here it is. Here's my example film a guy talking beside a helicopter on your iPhone. And all you're gonna hear is Tata Tata Tata Tata yet on a film set, they're miked up, you're still going to hear it as well. Yeah. So what they do is they go and they replace it afterwards in a studio now is this where they're looking at they're they're looking at themselves on screen, and they literally have to speak over there do multiple things. On that point, every single line of dialogue in all the Lord of the Rings movies that you hear is re recorded, so none of them like Gandalf standing on the side of the mountain they're saying rotten food or whatever it is. That's his voices coming from a studio after we recorded and edited and lined up so it looks exactly right.

Dara Quilty 33:49
you know you can put in dusty is the clip or my favorite clip is of Liam Neeson from the film taken and where he's done the phone to the kidnapper you remember this scene?

Dusty Rhodes 34:00
Let's play it

Liam Neeson 34:01
I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. What I do have a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career skills that make me a nightmare for people like you if you let my daughter go now that'll be the end of it. But if you don't I will look for you. I will find you and I will kill you

Dara Quilty 34:33
so a lot of people that was kind of a standout moment of the first take and movie which was very good. I don't think they really went anywhere after taking 12345 and six I mean it God dammit how many times gonna lady be kidnapped? The piece at the very start of that. And this was always the thing that impressed me about actors, specifically male actors that are a little bit older. Is all of them in all films are I don't know who you are. I don't know. What you want, and they're accessing this really low part of their voice that is impossible to achieve with a microphone. And everybody knows that a boom microphone is the guy that holds the microphone up over the heads of the actors. You see this on TV and in skits to pick up. Liam Neeson needs to be inside of a microphone to get that. I will find you this summer. Right. So I couldn't do that six feet away from microphone. Like, and when any of these action films with these guys, their whole dialogue, it sounds like it's all down here. We're gonna get out of here. We have 15 minutes before the building explodes. You're like, Oh, yeah, this is so exciting. But they have to go and do that in in in a studio afterwards. And nobody knows. Yeah, nobody pays attention to it. Because the audio engineer the audio, Adan of the film has done his job. He does not know you're not supposed to notice I feel it should be invisible. Yeah,

Dusty Rhodes 36:07
well, I think I think that's very true of pictures and audio and, and a lot of things a lot and even home deco. Like if I if I do send DIY around the house, you absolutely know that I did it. If you have a professional and then nobody sees it, you know what I mean? So it's that it's that kind of a way. Listen, lads. We shall leave it there for now. Thank you so very much for chatting with us, Dara Quilty, you can find out more about him a Dara Quilty.com, Aiden Cunningham, you can see a lot of the kind of music that he produces at Adan dash cunningham.com. My thanks also to Garrett Hart earlier, he is now at Hart media.ie if you're interested in finding out more about what he does, and the media training in particular, that is it for DustPod. This time around you find all the contacts and lots of stuff that we talked about in the show notes which are in the app that you listen to us at the moment if you need more, just give me a call. My number is in Dublin 960 1999 Okay, until next time, whenever that is from DustPod Thanks very much.