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Dusty Rhodes 0:00
Right now on how to build a podcast for your brand, we're talking producers. What exactly do they do and what magic do they bring to the mix? We're learning from one of the best, the Emerald award winning producer behind the hottest talk show in Dublin radio on Fm 104. Let's go.

Dusty Rhodes 0:44
Hello, and welcome to How to build a podcast for your brand. My name is Dusty Rhodes and today, we're helping you with the ins and outs of production. What exactly is it? What does a producer do? Where do you find one? Or do you just do it yourself? Joining me today is Shireen Langan, who has had a passion for radio forever. While she was in college. She had our own talk show already on commercial radio. So good she was since then she's had a stellar career working in radio and television production in Ireland and Los Angeles. And a couple of highlights for career would include winning an emerald award, which is the highest of the highest rated awards you can get for the open mic show on Fm 104, which he was producing, as he's also a founder of the world Media Lab company would you find at the world media lab.com. And she's also the author of a book How to podcast or like a radio presenter, sharing. You're very welcome to the podcast. Let me start off by asking for you. What is the magic of radio stroke podcasts?

Shireen Langan 1:48
I think the magic of radio is I don't think it's ever gone to die. I think it's something that regard to laying out is all distilled to be paper, like, you know, TV is going to take over, the Netflix gonna take over, everything's gonna take over. But I can never see as losing radio. Because I think that radio presenters can, especially during lockdown, we can speak to our audience in a way that no other platform can deal with. It's like it's just you and them in a room together.

Dusty Rhodes 2:14
Tell me that you are a producer. And today's podcast is all about producing. So in a nutshell, what is the role of a producer? What do they do?

Shireen Langan 2:24
Well, I'm actually I'm gonna steal your own line here and say it producer is the brains of the idea. I think a lot of people don't don't realize that you hear a good presenter and you're like way to do a really good job. But there's always someone behind them hands and the documents, you know, mentioned the mean, like, Don't say that don't say that. You can't say that, like, you know, edit edits. And so yesterday, the driving force of the project,

Dusty Rhodes 2:47
What would you say are the three main things that you do then as a producer.

Shireen Langan 2:52
For me, as a producer, I would see myself as I think the main thing is, you are the ideas person, you come up with all the ideas, you pull the show together. And most importantly, I believe the producer is the safety net of the entire project. The producer is the person that if things are going say they're the quick thinker that comes up with Okay, we're thinking, How can I save this? How can I save his dying ship right now? And so yeah, so that would be the main thing, like a producer is kind of like the price. I know that we spoken about this briefly before like even in regards to like legalities and stuff like that, they have to think of the things that the presenter does not have time to think of in that moment, because they're in the middle of interviewing someone or whatever they're doing.

Dusty Rhodes 3:37
So a producer kind of knows the rules of radio and how to guest the best of the content across in in an audio format, and is able to direct the presenter in doing that. Why does the producer not just be the presenter?

Shireen Langan 3:52
Because they're two different things. Like as I was just saying, data producer is the person that's behind the scenes, the thinking of when like, when you're presenting a show, you're very much just kind of reading what's in front of you. That's why like, you'll actually you'll often kind of hear on radio sometimes where the producer may have handed something over that like, you know, needed to be edited or something like that. And the presenter will just read, read, read read, it's like, they're not even thinking it's just a stream of words that is coming out of their mouths, and then you'll hear them go up. Sorry, sorry, sorry about that. My producer wasn't meant to send me over a text or whatever it was like I was to present to you need to be in the zone and just not have any worries. That's what having a producer you can trust us. Oh my god. So it's a hard thing to guess. But it's so important.

Dusty Rhodes 4:34
So it's kind of teamwork, really.

Shireen Langan 4:36
100%.

Dusty Rhodes 4:38
So what then you've worked in radio very successfully. And you've also kind of been in the the TV side of things. And you're also working in podcasting. What are the differences between producing for each of those three medium?

Shireen Langan 4:53
Oh, that's a great question. I suppose the key to radio and podcasting is that you're trying to keep an audience They're just true words, which is actually a lot harder than people than people think. So you have to keep that engagement, at least for TV, it's more visual. So you can have like cutaways and different clips and stuff like that. Whereas radio and podcasting is a person on their microphone, and it's keeping that interesting and up tempo.

Dusty Rhodes 5:17
So when you're coming up to a project, then what kind of because you can't know everything about everything? How do you think about what content you are going to put into your podcast? What's your what's your system?

Shireen Langan 5:31
So Well, I guess, first of all, in regards to you don't, you can't know everything but everything, you've hit the nail on the head. One of the best things I was ever told working in TV was by to protect the executive producer on Bella Tour, which is an MMA company, and they came over to Ireland and I was working with them. And Scott turned around to me and he was like, you know what train I know nothing about MMA, he said, but what I do now is how to produce a very good live TV show. And it was the first time because I know a lot of people will be like, you need to know everything about the show where you know the ins and outs, you don't what you need to do is be a good researcher and know the right questions to ask on a general format. Let's, let's pick an example of a show it depends on what it's going to be. So like, on the show that I was producing for every week, we had a weekly buttons. And it would typically be hard to be an Irish band because of the format of the show. And every time they came in, I'd always say to presenters, like we need to make this different, like we know they're gonna do their live performance. We know they're gonna plug their gig like the it's the rules array, do you nowadays, just kind of like the givens the people are gonna do. But first of all, if this RSS isn't that well known, how are we going to make it engaging for someone who's listening in because it's a hard sell to teach people away things that they don't already know about? Like, it's very hard to get someone interested in something like this, then you want to look up? How can we make this interesting for the artist if they're doing a range of 20 radio stations and a command and you know, your number 20. And you're sitting there with the same questions like, you'll see people one of the things I always love to do when people come in, I'm like, What are the do's and the don'ts of this interview? What is something that you 100% want to talk about that you're plugging or you know, just like a quirky angle or something about yourself? You know, what are the don'ts? What is the one area that you kind of you don't want to cover? And I was ready to people will have them but I feel like it's good way to put the the person that you're interviewing at ease, because then you're like, Okay, why Just so you know, I can trust them, they have my best interests at heart. But coming up with a unique angle is so important. So for things like artists, I used to come up with kind of like fun games or, you know, like, would you rather wear this or that or something different. So it's like they're getting their on air. Sloss is a little bit like, you know, in a way as well to get people involved in things. So so some sort of like giveaway or some sort of like get people to text in. So there was a game that we used to play where listeners would text in a random word, and the artist would have to come up with a song on the spot, like the lyrics to a song. And it was just like, I know, if you listened to save probably like, well, what is the point? The point is not is that it's engaging, it's entertaining, whilst the person is still getting whatever they're trying to sell across. So if you're like a company or a brand new sell on washing machines, why am I going to listen to washing machines, whereas if you make it funny, and I get to throw in the most random things, if I get to pick the color of the washing machine every week, and we got to, you know, pick up cool designs, and I don't know some sort of prank or something is going into it? Well, then yeah, suddenly, like you have a whole new audience is interested in washing machines.

Dusty Rhodes 8:29
So you're just trying to think of something from a different angle really is is a good way of coming up with those things. To get bring, let me bring you back to researching. If you have a guest coming in on your podcast, how would you go about researching who they are? And what questions to ask them.

Shireen Langan 8:46
So there's a couple of ways to go about this. Obviously, social media is the very first go to and I always say to people look for the different parts of social media, it's not just going on to their first page go and look do to have a personal page is there is there other pages that they have going on going into even if they're tagged images, and then like clicking into them and seeing where that's gonna lead you like, research is a really tedious job, and you really need to be looking for different angles. And on it if they have a website, or 100%. That's the best place to go to. But there are those people who just have no online presence, and they're really, really hard people to guess. So what I love to do is, is come up with Google forums. So have a list of 10 to 15 questions and fly it over and over person. Unlike there's no harm in even saying to people I say to people when they come in, I don't know about your life. So I need you to tell me or a five minute pre phone call. And this is the beauty about having a producer they say if you're presenting the show yourself, you're best off not doing this only because then when the person comes on there, they'll be like, oh, like, do you remember when or I've even done it on this drama at all. Can I make that a couple of days ago and everyone listening has gone. We weren't there. We feel very left out right now. So obviously they inclusivity but I'm asking people, bringing them in getting your producer to give them a quick phone call going true coming up with, again, with the angles coming up with different quirky questions and stuff like that. But knowing the right questions to ask is very important to get the right stories out to people. Because often, you'll come out of an interview and someone will say something and you'll go, Why didn't you tell me meal 10 minutes ago, that would have been the key highlights of our entire interview. But people who aren't trained especially they don't know what you're looking for, you need to get it out of them.

Dusty Rhodes 10:29
So when you are researching what questions to ask a guest, what kind of information do you want to get out of them? is to learn something from their experience? Or to just get entertaining stories? Or do you just want to get factual information? What kind of questions do you ask?

Shireen Langan 10:46
Well, I think it depends on the the aim of the interview, what like, and a nice sort of blend of them all is always good. Like it can be like, I mean, obviously, like, it depends like if you're if it's something to do with like mental health, or like a really like, serious topic within a might not be the best time to start traveling funny stories or, you know, making a joke out of it. So like, knowing the time and the place as well. Well, for me, like the best interview is something that's funny, engaging, but you're still learning true itis and people actually learn better if it's light hearted. There was a study done and it shows the people in Ireland hate being told what to do just he did not very, it was like order today. They put these banners up everywhere. And it did not work because Irish people hate being told what to do, we will rebel against us. So similar in a podcast, if you're like, do this, do that automatically. No, I'm not going to do that. But if this is funny and engaging, you're like, you know what, we're going to continue to story over on our, wherever you're trying to bring them to our instagrammer. You know, you can find out more about it here, well, then yeah, you're gonna pop on over. But think about when you're in school, and you're learning about something, especially, you know, like, if you have some sort of business that you're trying to promote itself, if the teacher is just there speaking at you, you're not engaged, if the teachers there, tell them funny stories. And, you know, they bring you on a journey with them leading by example. And then it's almost like you're sucked into a trade or energy. And you're like, Okay, I want to go with this person. I want to learn more about that. And you're gonna go off and do your own research into us.

Dusty Rhodes 12:18
Where do you stand on it? Where do you stand on that whole intro when you're introducing a person?

Shireen Langan 12:25
So I love to see this is where this is where being a producer comes into, I love to ask people, how do you want to be introduced? Because someone could have 10 achievements, and then you pick the wrong one. And they go What? You know what? I didn't actually want that one. And so that's one of the questions I have in my forum. Hey, do you want to be introduced? Just awesome. It's easiest way to do it. Even in regards to names. Most people have nicknames that they want to go by, like, Don't assume, because there's nothing more awkward. And this is why I asked these questions that when you're live on air, and you say someone's name, where you introduce someone, and then on air, you're called Open it, and then you're there going. I'm so sorry about that. This is very embarrassing. And so just ask people that there's most people so so giving, and they would prefer this than the wrong thing being said.

Dusty Rhodes 13:10
So if you're in an organization, and they've said, Hey, you know, podcasting is kind of cool, we're gonna make a podcast and you're gonna put it together. This person is like, all of a sudden become a producer, because that is essentially as the word what would you say are the three main rules for producing?

Shireen Langan 13:29
Numero uno is know your audience. That is the main main thing who is is aimed towards because of I Am, if you come to me and you're like a sharing I love Have you made up? We're a dating agency. I'd love if you made a dating podcast for us. If this is for 18 to 24 year olds, be completely different than if it's for 50 to 60 year olds, two completely different audiences know who you're trying to target. And know your brand. How do you want the person to feel when they're listening to the podcast?

Dusty Rhodes 14:02
What do you mean by that?

Shireen Langan 14:03
I I'm a big field. I'm a big fields person now. I think I think that's like an NLP thing, isn't it? You know, some people go by what they hear what they see what they feel. I have a feeling person. If I'm listening to a podcast hate I want to feel or I want to feel confident and safe to I want to feel motivated. And if it's a gym, I want to feel motivated. I want to be like, yes, I'm getting up at 5am tomorrow, I'm gonna go do this like hardcore. And, but then if it's off, I can't even think of anything. Whenever you're sending selling beds. I want to be comfortable. I want to I want to be a bit more chill. I want to envision myself going to bed at night. Birds chirping everywhere. I want to feel the warm sunshine, if it's holidays, you know, every everything that you're selling has a completely different feel to us. I think that's the fact that people don't actually take it on board. And one of the shows that I was doing was a late night talk show. So I was very conscious comes into knowing your audience, a lot of people that are listening to very late night talk shows, especially on a Sunday night, like after around 12. And they're typically people that are probably by themselves, you know, like, they may or may or may not be working the next day, like, you could have a kind of, you know, people that might be a little bit lonely listening to it. So like, you really need to keep that in mind. So uplifting or beat, like have the listener feel as though they're your friend, and they're involved, you know, whereas if it's a Breakfast Show me aimed in the mornings, it's a bit more like, Whoa, okay, let's go have a party. Let's start today, two completely different things. And so yeah, so how do you want the person to feel which will come into knowing your brand as well. And then the third one, the third one, now, we don't really know if this is like a rule or whatever it is, but, but know your limits. And don't be afraid to push them. Don't be afraid to be thought, but different is there's nothing wrong with I mean, jeez, I've called for 101 ideas, and 5050 of them may have been a hit, you know, if even, and there's nothing wrong with coming up with an idea that doesn't necessarily work. Because when you get that idea that was a bit different, that does take off. That's the one that everyone's gonna remember, no one's gonna remember, you know, that one time, your idea was a bit off. And so yeah, be a bit different than throwing yourself out there. And don't be afraid to push the boundaries.

Dusty Rhodes 16:17
I'd heard that before. When it came to ideas, and you know, we were given a task, and it's kind of like, okay, bah, bah, bah, bah, I want you to write down x amount of ideas or whatever, as many ideas as you can for whatever the bit was of the show. I can't remember what it was. And so it was 20 minutes of discussion, we could do this and whatever. And eventually they went, Okay, now, take your list and take the first 10 things on your list. Is that okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we'll share them with everybody is that no, put a line through them, we're not going to use what I was like. Because the first 10 thing do you think of or the first 10 things everybody else will think of the gold you will find is idea number 12. Or idea number 15. And as you say, it's like, you know, kind of, well, that's when you start to think a little bit different. And when you start to think a little bit different, that's where the gold is. And when you think about the podcast that you like, or the TV shows that you like, they've all got a little cork a little something different they like about it, am I resonating with you …

Shireen Langan 17:20
100%, and a great tool that I use to use as well as that you need to remember your audience or the people around you. They're everyday people. They're not these enigmas. So what I love to do is, I'm living before guys, it's a minute, and sometimes I'll walk into the kitchen, I'll have a real good topic, idea and top of my head, I'll just throw it out there casually, just the outro and conversation, and I'll wait and see. Just a good reaction is if people in the room start to react, and everyone says debate and are talking about it, or whatever, you've hit the nail on the head or, or everyday things, think about the discussions or get people talking. And if it's in any way, relevant to what you're doing, or what you're trying to sell, or promote, write it down, you're going to get these ideas like, I get the best ideas right before I fall asleep or in the shower. They just come to me. But if you were like Sheree and sit down and open an idea, I can't I can't I can't do it on the spot. I can't but like you said, it's gonna be one of the first top 10 ideas that Yeah, come to you that every other person has done. And so yeah, 100% that resonates.

Dusty Rhodes 18:20
So if you're this person who's been tasked with making a podcast, where are the advantages of going ahead and doing it yourself? And where are the advantages of using a professional producer?

Shireen Langan 18:33
I think doing it yourself is definitely a specific personality type. In the sense us, as a producer, you need to understand, although you're the brains behind it, you're not kind of like the face of us. And so teamwork is very important, knowing each other's roles, but also being open to a bit of criticism, a bit of disagreements, like, I could come in from days with the words I'm literally I'm like, I have the show nailed. Like they won't believe this idea I had and the presenter turns around is like, no, no. What were you feeling us? And you have to be okay with that, you know, just kind of, oh, okay, stung a little bit. Let me let me just move on. And the pros to having a producer is the same thing again, in the sense that as a presenter, you could think that you have the show absolutely nailed. And they'll come in and just tweak us, a co producer. A lot of the times like sometimes presenters do quite like to take the lead on things and that's okay. But still just come in and fine tune or tweak it or, you know, help help come up with different angles. It's someone to bounce ideas off and to make the show the best it could be. And so yeah, like there's pros. there's pros and cons to both I have presented and produced a three hour talk show by myself. For six weeks. Walter is looking for a producer. And I have to say as was probably one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life.

Dusty Rhodes 19:55
Wow. Because you were doing both roles.

Shireen Langan 19:58
I was doing everything. And it's like, it becomes tiring at the end of it because like people tuning in, you know, your friends, family, or even clients or whatever and your message and they're like cheese out what that was amazing. But like, no one's giving you constructive feedback, especially if they don't understand what it is you're trying to do you need someone that understands what it is you're trying to achieve in order to get this. So like, week one or two, you're like, Wow, look at me, I'm amazing. Look at me doing everything by myself. And then after a while, you're like, Okay, this is kind of tiring, I need to know if this is good is a bad like, just someone to help share the workload, like I can't explain how many pros there are, is to having a producer and having that person there. And once it's someone that you can trust and work well with.

Dusty Rhodes 20:39
Okay, so let's get into the examples part of our podcasts, which I really enjoy, because we've been chatting about what a producer does, and the kind of content to put into show. Now we've kind of got to back it up with a few examples. So we've got three examples that we have picked between us, and we're gonna select our favorite The first one is from you. 10 what you've picked from a well known TV personality and why.

Shireen Langan 21:02
So I have picked my biggest inspiration as a presenter, and I'm pretty sure he was a producer in the past, Mr. Graham Norton. And why? To me, oh my god, like, especially when you hear the clip, there's so many things that Graeme does in this in how he presents like, first of all, if he lives there were mates. Like if I saw him industry, they'd be like, yo, Graham wants to crack like as if he knows me, he's so relatable. He's so easy to get along with. But the most like I noticed, this isn't the producer part. But I felt like it was definitely an interesting point to point a his accent and the way he actually speaks within us, typically isn't how a presenter is told to speak or act, you know what I mean? But I feel like his personality is so strong that he can get away with us. So that's the whole thing of breaking the rules and breaking the boundaries. Like Yeah, very easily, you got to conform to Okay, and I'm going to speak very professionally and do this often deal there. But he's like, Nah, you know what, this is me. This is my personality. And so, ya know, so I think Yeah, it's a really it's a really strong clip. Okay. Let's take a listen.

Clip 22:05
Now common oak, we are now going to play Carlton oak. True or false. Okay. Oh, my goodness. Okay. Yep, there are no prizes. And in my experience that normally these are true. As a first question, first question. I feel this sounds negative, but I think there's a reason behind it. At true or false. Where are your UK chart? Nemesis?

Oh, I think that is true. Was that? No. Was that did they hold Jason and I have number one for especially for you. Apparently they've kept you from number one. Three times. Oh, then they are mind shot. Where are they now?

Yeah. Goodness.

True. What's the name of the character you played in Doctor Who was an anagram of the TARDIS.

True Yes. Astrid pair. Oh, I've got such fond memories of making that. That episode. Will you? That was the card of you were down in Cardiff. Yeah. Yeah, it's in Cardiff. Okay, yep. True to trues. Okay, there's a you were born in Bethlehem.

This is some deep fact finding.

Dusty Rhodes 23:20
You were born in Bethlehem. I love that. I love that clip.

Shireen Langan 23:24
That's it. But the thing about it is and the reason why am I left the last little bit in is because she even says yourself, this is some deep fact finding like that. Now, obviously, he has huge team assuming this. But that would have been predominantly the reducer who went off and found these things and handed them to him. But the way he's conducting he could very easily sit down and be like question answer, question answer. They're making a phone and engaging because a game even though everything is true, that he's saying she feels comfortable enough to actually have that conversation because he like he pushes the boundaries and things but he never goes too far. Like if you listen to a whole podcast, there's often times where he says things and I'm like, even made the white Huawei thing I'm like, oh, probably wouldn't have said that myself. But he can get away with it. And people know what to expect. But it's such a great way to be like we know so much about you. We've done all this research, we're giving people this knowledge but in a fun and engaging way. Yeah,

Dusty Rhodes 24:15
I was what I liked about it was that it was it was thinking that was probably number 12 on the list. What will we do with it if you go down to a true false and things that she probably doesn't know about? Or does she so that great example of good production there. The example I have for you is from a podcast that I like which is called the hustle and flow chart, podcast, which is very tactical Marketing Podcast. And the reason I like it is because the two lads like to get guests on who will actually teach you something. It's a how often like, you know, kind of it's especially when you go to conferences or whatever, people will go up and say, Well, you know, I'm I'm the best Because I did such such and such, and this is what we did ABC, whereas the conference had actually said already said, This person has done ABC, and they will reveal how they did it, and how they put it together. And they never do. It just, it drives me nuts, you know, you're spending 1000s to go to these things. So what I like about these two marketing guys who do hustle and flow chart is they actually have people in and who will teach you things. And the reason they are able to do that is because as producers, they have taken the time to actually read the book that the person has written. And they know the questions to ask so that the person will actually give good advice, okay. This particular guy that the head arm was just darlin, Justin, Donald, he's kind of an investment guy, or whatever, talking about boring things, but like money. But he gave such stunningly good advice. I haven't listened to this clip in about three weeks. So I'll have to listen to it again, and explain to you the backstory. But tell me what you think as well, here it is.

Clip 26:04
I think the first thing is, if you don't have the assets, you should probably have some sort of, you know, emergency fund that covers you for three, at least three months, ideally, six months, if you can get to nine or 12 months, even better, but you know, something to hold you over. But if you just look at what your mortgages or your rent is, and you figure out a way to get that in cash flow, on a monthly basis, it might look like a lot on an annual basis, I'm telling you on a monthly basis, it's not as hard as you think. And everyone's always surprised at how little it costs per month, when you break down just the bare necessities. And there's a feeling of true liberation that happens when you hit these numbers, I just had someone in my mastermind literally just hit their number, they said it, they knew what they needed to get to, it was $10,000 a month, and they were working really hard to get there. And this last year, less than a year and this last six or seven months, they were able to accomplish it. And and that's it. So they had a target, they knew what they had to get to. And it started small. So the 10,000 was like, I'm gonna be really excited when I'm there. But I'm going to start with just a couple 1000. And I'm telling you, when you cover your expenses, it's like taking this load of bricks that you've been carrying around in your backpack off, and you can breathe, it's like you're floating, it just feels so good. And you make different decisions. And I'm going to take it one step further and say, when you've covered your lifestyle, and you're not reliant upon your business, or your job, to produce an income, you make different decisions and much better decisions. From the standpoint of work professionally, you're in a better place. You don't make decisions out of fear. You make decisions out of strength, you don't have to keep doing things the way that you did them that you know that they work. Because you don't have to have that income anymore. And you're willing to try something new, you're willing to hire someone different, you're willing to transition roles, you're willing to take some chances. And often that's where the magic happens on the entrepreneurial side of things.

Dusty Rhodes 28:14
So what did you get out of that train?

Shireen Langan 28:17
Wow. Well, there's actually Well, there's three things that I got ended up first of all, I think that it's really interesting to look at remember I saying hey, podcast make you feel Graham Norton. For me, it was like fun and easy flowing driving to get an ice cream. That literally as I was listening to you, I was like, that's an absolutely genius idea. After today's I might sit down and come up with my expenses for the month. It's actually after inspiring me to go off and do that. Second of all, I don't know if people picked up on the fact that he was he was promoting something in that without letting on that he was promoting something, oh, I had someone off my mastermind, you know, just hit 10,000. But there was no go check out www dot whatever. Very, very smart way doing it. Because straightaway on my head, I was like, interesting. I wonder what the mastermind is and how much is the cost? So I'm probably gonna go off from research now. I think my third point was to deal with the fact that it's he's very relatable in the sense that I feel as though he's coming from a place of understanding. Hmm, he's been there done that. I often say just the beta. I don't know if he's a good example. But like, have you ever gone to a therapist, and he can tell the difference between a therapist who has been true as a therapist who's reading from a book, he reminds me of the therapist who is being their own boss, I feel as though he gets that and he wants to pull me along with him. Versus I read a really good marketing book and now I'm going to give you this advice. That was the feeling I could be completely after that was the feeling I got from him.

Dusty Rhodes 29:44
What I liked about that guy was I have a experience of this. And the minute I heard him saying it I went That is so true. And it is such a good piece of advice in that it's scary with As we go through, you know the world and COVID and the talking about finances in the States, and that there was a survey done to say that only 10% of Americans had more than $400 for our could handle an emergency that only needed $400. It was like, Oh my god, people are living day to day. But the big thing I would take out of that is, is that if you have a fund for three months, or you're able to cover your basic expenses every month, not worry about it, you make different decisions on that. Wow, how you can see that in your head right now you can go, I'm living from week to week, and that was just about enough money. So I'm going to think one way, but then actually, if I have this bit of money behind me, I know I'm gonna chill am I gonna do boom in you do make difference. Anyway, that's the two lads from Austin flow charge, wanna listen to that their guest was Justin Donald. And he was on the last whatever couple of weeks you find it at. The third example, then of thinking as a producer and putting good content into a show then is becoming wise which you've chosen. Tell me about this and why you've picked it.

Shireen Langan 31:04
Yeah, so I found it. So this isn't actually a clip from a podcast. But this is more So as I was saying, engaging the audience and fine, it's almost doing market research for your podcast in a very clever way. And like if we play us and then talk about it after I think it will make more sense, but I just I never actually thought about doing this myself. Okay, here we go.

Clip 31:27
Hey, they're becoming wise listeners. I'm Marie Samuel, a the leading producer of this podcast. Thanks so much for listening to season two. We hope you found that reflective, helpful and centering. Now before we go away to work on our next season, we'd love to hear from you about what you loved how we can make the podcast even better. And just to get to know you a little more. So we've created a survey. And we'd be so grateful if you shared your thoughts and ideas with us. Go to odd being.org slash v w survey to tell us what you think that's on being.org slash v w survey. Thanks again for listening, and stay subscribed to get new episodes when we're back with season three. I love that

Shireen Langan 32:05
I love to do is because when I was going through a spot Spotify list, I actually clicked on that thinking it was an episode. And then I only saw there was like a minute long or whatever. I was like, Wow, what a genius idea. Rather than putting it on our website, or social media or anything, why not put it on the platform where everyone's already listening? You know, and I was just like, I never actually thought about doing that myself and Mr. Producer who's doing it. She's like, Hey, I'm the producer. I'm not normally on this, but boom, can you give me a bit of feedback, please. Now? how well it actually worked? I don't know. Obviously, not to producer honest, I'd be interested to find out if we ever tried it ourselves. But yeah, I thought it was a clever way of doing it.

Dusty Rhodes 32:39
I think you will get much better results from that you don't get as many results. But the quality is so much better because people have bought into the podcast and they're far more likely to to give results. Okay, like that, like I love three good examples. But who's gonna be the winner, which was your favorite, and you can include one of your own.

Shireen Langan 33:02
Hmm, my favorite in regards to what has like triggered me to most to actually do something about it will probably be your pick the wholesale and flow only because I genuinely feel like sitting down and coming up with my income for the month.

Dusty Rhodes 33:17
You've learned something today from a podcast. I like the Graham Norton one. That's the last one I'm going to go for. And the reason why I that was my favorite of the three was because it shows the mind of a good producer. And I was like okay, so what can we do? What can we do? What can we do and just continuing on for an extra five minutes to come up with an idea. Bam. And that shows what the skill of a producer is so shareen Langan, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you about a podcast and producing thanks so much for coming on with us. If you'd like to find out more about assuring you'll find her at Shireen Langan on Instagram. Or you can check out her website as well the world media lab.com and I'll include links to that as well in the show description which you find on your smartphone right now, as well as a link to where to get the book of course, how to podcast like a radio presenter, which is just full of tons of golden advice for you. Of course, if you want to chat with ourselves about any of the topics discussed today, he sends an email or a phone call or whatever all of those details in the show description as well. But for now, thank you so much for listening, and we'll talk to you again soon.